Wednesday, February 25, 2009

CBS say's "let em fall"



A housing report released Tuesday delivered this telling economic news: American home values in metro areas fell by 27 percent from their peak, according to the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller index.

As the U.S. economy contracts, any sensible forecast calls for this slide to accelerate. Yet the federal government seems intent on trying to halt the normalization process, even though it would offer more affordable housing to prospective homebuyers.

The reason for this forecast is that buy-vs-rent ratios in such areas remain far higher than historic norms, a sign that localized housing bubbles have yet to deflate. The buy-vs-rent ratio is the equivalent of the price-to-earnings ratio for stocks; the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco uses a variant in its own analysis and noted back as far as 2005 that the "ratio is about 40 percent higher than the normal level" for San Francisco and Los Angeles. (You may have seen its cousin, the price-rent ratio.)

But if it's a heck of a lot cheaper to rent, why buy? For the last decade, the reason was price appreciation. When prices are falling, that's no reason at all.

One way the buy-vs-rent ratio can return to normal is for rents to rise. But a recent New York Times article about falling rents in Manhattan, and similar reports in Crain's Chicago Business and the Los Angeles Times suggests that's not terribly likely.
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It's starting to look like the main stream media has caught on. This is the 3rd or 4th article just this week preaching the gospel of "let the prices correct" Unfortunately our government is still hell bent on keeping house prices unaffordable for the majority of Americans. They don't seem to care that a whole generation will retire with nothing if that happens. This will put an even greater burden on the government when they retire. And the current generation of young buyers will have to overpay for their homes.

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Sales may be humming in the lower priced areas of California, but else where in the US sales are still tanking.

Sales of existing homes sank unexpectedly last month to the lowest level in nearly 12 years as potential buyers worried about their jobs and awaited details of President Barack Obama's plans to stabilize the housing market.

But the banking industry's teetering fortunes and mounting job losses could stall any recovery. Falling prices and low mortgage rates don't make much of a difference for people who are out of work -- or fearful of losing their jobs.

"Buyers are sitting back," said real estate agent Sandra Lipmann of Prudential Centennial Realty in Westchester County, N.Y., home to the upscale properties of many Wall Street workers. "They don't have the full story of what's going to happen in this economy."

Sales of existing homes fell 5.3 percent to an annual rate of 4.49 million last month, from 4.74 million in December, the National Association of Realtors said Wednesday. It was the weakest showing since July 1997. And some analysts don't see sales bottoming out until later this year as prices sink further. Economists had expected sales to rise to an annual pace of 4.79 million homes.

Without adjusting for seasonal factors, sales nationwide fell 7.6 percent from a year earlier. The West was the only region to show increased sales.

"With supply overhang still huge and mortgage financing difficult to obtain, home prices are likely to decline considerably further in the quarters ahead," he wrote.

Prices have been falling as thousands of Americans lose their jobs every week. Employers took an especially large ax to their payrolls last month, the Labor Department said Wednesday, and the cuts are likely to get worse over the next few months.

Mass layoffs, or job cuts of 50 or more by a single employer, increased to 2,227 in January, up almost 50 percent from the same month last year. More than 235,000 workers were fired in last month's cuts.

14 comments:

Allison said...

I don't buy this whole buy-vs-rent ratio. In the IE anyway. So, we were about to close escrow on our fantastic house in Hawarden Hills. We canceled (congrats to the person who took the short sale up right after us). I am now looking for a place to rent.

If I had looked at rentals before we canceled, I might not have done it. I can't rent a house as nice as the one we were going to buy for the price our mortgage would have been. Instead, we are going to rent a much smaller, crappy location house, for just a few hundred dollars less.

In my mind, rent-vs-buy ratios are not that far off - not in Riverside anyway. To rent a decent sized house (2500 sq ft), in a nice area, it would cost us close to $3k per month. My mortgage for the same thing would have been around $2600.

Am I missing something here?

golfer_X said...

So why did you bail out of the sale?

You must be looking to rent in some real nice areas if it's $3k/mo. I just checked Craigslist and most 4 bedrooms in Riverside are running $1500 to $2k.

Noah Moerbeek said...

Has anyone noticed that the lower end market in corona is shrinking?

X is this because the market is tapering off or because the foreclosures are not getting processed?

Unknown said...

Allison,

Your P+I would have been $2600 on a 30yr fixed? (say on a $400k house)

What about taxes and insurance? and say 0.5% for maint.? what about HOA/MR? probably all told, that is another 1.5% of price, so say another $6k/year or $500/mo?

And what about the lost return on the $100k downpayment (3%, or $250/mo)? and what if prices decline another (lets be optimistic and say 10%) $40k/$400k house. That is $40k lost over the next year, or $3200/month

So $2600 + $500 + $250 + $3200 = $6550.

That's a heck of a lot more than $3k rent, eh?

FreedomCM

Allison said...

Alex - no doubt. That's why I finally gave up and decided to rent. Although $2600 did include taxes and insurance. And no HOA - I'm in older neighborhoods. But the monthly price obviously didn't include maintenance or price declines. Thanks for convincing me I made the right decision.

X - Honestly, I don't even know how to explain why we bailed. Just didn't feel right. Thought it was move-in ready, actually needed a decent amount of cash after inspection (not a ton, but enough). After down payment and fixes, we decided cash is too important right now to use most of our savings. There was a backup offer so the house is probably in escrow again. Still think it is a good buy.

I am looking to rent in a nice area. I want my kids to go to the same schools where we will buy eventually. So I look only in 92506 - canyon crest, hawarden hills, etc.

Craigslist has nothing in those areas (well, a few options but even if they say 4 bedroom they are like 1700 sq. ft - click on the links and you'll see. Or they are in a bad neighborhood). I'm telling you, when you actually start to look at rentals, there is nothing decent and over 2000 sq. ft. for less than 2k. For something like I was actually going to buy, 3k is the going rate.

Right now, I'm leaning towards a house in a neighborhood above Victoria, only 1700 square feet, for $1700/month. Not willing to pay as much as I would have paid for my mortgage in the nicest area of Riverside. It will be a squeeze for us to live in that square footage.

Allison said...

P.S. I know I'm being high-maintenance. But if I don't want to buy in Orangecrest or La Sierra, why would I want to rent there?

Here is a great example of a rental that might look great on paper. Craigslist - a 4 bedroom in Canyon Crest for $1850. But guess what, this house backs up to Canyon Crest Drive, a busy street. Second, that 4 bedroom is 1500 square feet. 1500. For $1850? I'm sorry, but that price is ridiculous. I could buy a $1500 square foot home for under 200K right now.

golfer_X said...

Nmoerbeek

I've noticed a slowdown in the amount of homes hitting the market in the last couple of weeks in my search area. I'm assuming this is due to the current foreclosure hold. This is set to expire March 6th. I talked to my buddy at one of the larger banks and he says they are holding onto an enormous pile of homes. He doesn't know when or how they will release them though.

I also checked foreclosure.com and there are more homes than ever delinquent right now in the areas I'm looking. I don't know if they are all hoping for the big BO to save them or what.

On the bright side, I'm now seeing plenty of homes in my target areas at prices I would actually be willing to pay (or very close to it).

Unknown said...

golfer_x. curios to hear what prices for homes in your target areas.

golfer_X said...

The homes I'm looking at are between $400k and $500k (or under hopefully). I took a shot at one last week listed at $480k (original selling price was $1.1M in 2006). Someone beat me out though. Bummer, it was a nice place. Probably a good thing though as that would be on the high end of my comfort zone. That was the first house in a long time I actually tried to buy. I still feel most where I'm looking are overpriced by $50k to $100k.

Unknown said...

Golfer_X,
Its probably a blessing that you got outbidded. I work for a school district and it looks pretty bad. At the end of this school year, education are going to take a big hit. Every district will be laying off teachers left and right, what sad is that these teachers that are getting lay off will be forced to either change career, or move out of California or back to their parents, or move in with the in-law. It will be tough for them to find jobs at other districts because they are cutting back as well. This years cut won't be as bad compared to next year, it will be even worse, and by the 2011 if the state budget doesn't get better, public education will have to close at least 1 site per district. This is going to make the housing market spiral down even more. Teachers will be getting their pink slip in mid March, some district start issuing them out already.

Oh one more thing to add, some of these teachers spouse might be in education as well, and keeping in mind their spouse might have already been laid off in other fields already. So no more double income.

golfer_X said...

That's the reason I am looking at houses we can probably manage on one of our incomes. My wife is in the medical field and her job is "nearly" recession proof. I'm not sure anything is totally recession proof these days. My job is the iffy one. I work for a defense contractor and you know how those jobs are, especially when the dems run the show. Quite scary.

Renee' said...

Finally found a home - am 2 weeks into escrow - couldn't pass up the deal even though it's a bit farther out than what I wanted to go - but only by 10minutes.

Got a steal of a deal from INDYMAC on an REO for $229k. Large home and all kinds of "super escrow goodies" with it. All I know is that my rent in Corona - in the "ghetto" - is going up to about $2070 a month - my mortgage - PITI will be $2060 so hell - it's time to move.

But you are right - the REO's are drying up but it's the ones that are priced right - my realtor has 7 buyers and not enough homes or at least not enough meidian priced homes or homes where you don't have to go in and spend $50k to get it fixed up.

However - I did hear that in about 6 months after I close escrow that I will be able to refinance to a lower interest rate - the ones that are offered to the homeowners in trouble - I could be looking at a 4.1% rate by end of year - sounds good to me.

I'm in the same job boat as you "X" - my husbands job is stable but my job is "iffy". My position is to be "eliminated" some time this year - they are not sure where to put me - I am thinking that they will put me in the unemployment line. HAHA whatever - I do Accounting and even in a bad economy - Accountants are still needed so I am not worried - might have to take a cut in pay but at least my mortgage will not be so high that we can't make it....my kids will just have to get used to "Weinies & Beans".

Unknown said...

Renee

Where did you buy?

Renee' said...

OSA - I bought in the one town I SWORE I would never buy in - Lake Elsinore.

I am still not a fan of the area - HOWEVER - after doing some extensive research - I found an area RIGHT off the 15frwy - off Lake St - called Alberhill. I got a 4 yr old home with almost 2600sq ft with a 9500sg ft lot for $229k (but I am getting 6% back for closing costs) The Mello Roos stink but oh well - anyone who buys a home 10 years or younger are going to pay them out here. It's honestly a nice looking home.

It's probably the most decent area in LE - it backs up to Corona so perhaps that is why. The middle school there is the most top rated middle school in the IE and the high school is brand new.

The O.C. developer is still building homes there and people are buying them - so that says something.

One nice thing about being right there is that if the 15frwy gets congested - there is Temescul Canyon Rd that runs right along the freeway for the most part - it's perfect for commuters.

Developers have also come in and will start building more stores right there on Lake - Fresh N Easy is going in along with a few other stores - this area is definitly better than Rosetta Canyon, Tuscany Hills or Canyon Hills in LE - again - it's not close to Bundy Canyon which again - is not a favorbale area of LE