Monday, February 4, 2008

listing hanky panky

here's two listings for the same house,

17651 Timberview DR Riverside, CA 92504

MLS#p594460. On the market for 157 days. The price history goes like this
Aug 15, 2007 $749,900
Sep 05, 2007 $699,000
Dec 19, 2007 $625,000

Now a new listing shows up, for the same house. Days on market reset to zero and the price goes back up. This is a new agent too, the old one was with TNG and the new one is Exit Realty West (what kind of name is Exit Realty?). A new listing and the price goes up to $670k. What, she thinks if the old guy had no luck at $625 she can do better at $45k more? The house is still priced nearly $200k more than a couple near by REO's, and those are not flying off the shelf.


Anonymous said...

I've seen a couple of homes where the list price is high, then low, then high again. One of these was by the same agent.

Anonymous said...

I know the Exit Realty West Realtor. She is a good Realtor and an honest person. Here is what I think you are looking at in this situation.

The first listing with TNG is on the Tempo MLS system which is based in Orange County, the TNG guy has a 714 phone number and his original listing never showed up on the Matrix MLS system. The Matrix system is what us IE folks use and is the MLS database for all the Realtor boards out this way. So, you are looking at an orange county kook who listed an IE home for sale on a MLS database that only gets coverage with orange county realtors. Note, an OC based agent can get a home listed on the Matrix system for something like 45 bucks but he either was to cheap or to stupid and that is what makes him a kook. Secondly the TNG guy had it range priced at 625-699, but redfin doesn't show the range.

This is pure speculation here but what I'm willing to bet is that the TNG guy's listing contract expired, he didn't switch the status in the Tempo system to expired and then the seller relisted with a local person, ie Exit Realty West thus it shows up on the Matrix system. Then Redfin shows it as a double listing, which in this case isn't possible because they both say exclusive, full service.

So, that is what I'm willing to bet happened however I very well could be wrong. I will absolutely stand by my assertion that the TNG guy is a kook and that Cathy is a good person and good agent no matter what the situation with this house is.

Also, Exit Realty is a franchise company just like Century 21 or all the others out there so you get names like Exit Realty West or Century 21 Redhawk or Re/Max Elite etc.

Lastly, I know it is fun beating up on all these kook realtors and sellers and banks and mortgage brokers and uncle Harry who told us to buy real estate in 2005 but believe it or not sometimes things can be just a simple oversight. Blogs such as used to be pretty good places for information but are now nothing more than one mans quest to slam the entire industry and really comes across as overly biased and no longer seem to convey good information. Now it is just articles that support his extreme point of view. I really enjoy your blog and hope that doesn't happen here.

For the record I'm an 11 year mortgage broker, real estate investor and I believe this country is going to hell in a hand basket. This country is going to experience a recession like nothing we will ever see in our lifetimes again and the pain every single homeowner will be experiencing is going to be intense. Having said that I still have some good things to say about the industry and it participants and have zero doubt that I will make more money in the next 10 years then I probably ever will again in my lifetime.

Brian H

golfer_X said...

Thanks for the info. I do like to beat up on unprofessional realtors. I have no problems with "professionals". I realize the work involved in marketing and selling a house when done correctly. I don't have a problem with a person making a decent living. But I really do have a hard time with all these realtors that put absolutely no effort into their listings.

That house has very little chance of selling at that price. There are several other REO properties in the area for nearly $200k less.

Broker Veteran of War said...

Brian H,
Settle down tough guy, I have 22 years in the "biz" entered right out of college, unlike the last 8 years when every stripper, hair dresser, audio salesman, etc, entered the biz.....people who cant even spell a 1003.
The barrier to entry is this business is down right pathetic, and if you hold California Brokers license.....BFD.....boy I think I passed mine with a hangover......

So I hope you have a lot of cash stashed, so you can invest in RE in the next decade, not sure it will be worth much, because you have NO control of the "actual funding" or source of money to do any serious amount of transactions,
but I can't knock you for your "self-promoting" and coming to the aid of an associate.....after all thats what brokers do......
Golf pro.....if he does not like the "expressed points of view" please direct him to the NAR or brokers outpost to air out his angst..........

ice weasel said...

So, for almost three quarters of a million dollars I can decomposed granite landscaping?


I can't wait to see that city lights view.

"Having said that I still have some good things to say about the industry and it participants and have zero doubt that I will make more money in the next 10 years then I probably ever will again in my lifetime.

Brian H"

Good luck with that business plan Brian. Wait, that is unless as part of your brokerage you offer clean up services on foreclosures. Then you just might hit it big this decade.

golfer_X said...

Yup, nice landscaping. Many of the houses in this area are new so unless the last owner went in and immediately dropped 100k or more to landscape the place, dirt is what ya get. These sold between $750 to just over a million from the builder last year. But now the builders are selling them for around $700k BUT they are also offering boatloads of incentives especially on standing inventory (especially the KB Alicante tract). There are 4 developments in this area plus a few small custom builders. They are all fighting for the few buyers so it's very easy to play them off one another. I just don't see how these resales and especially the REO's can ask these prices when you can go get a better deal from the builder. I might be able to see the price if they had lanscaped the lot but like IW says, they are mostly still dirt.

These houses were selling for around $400k in 2001 and it doesn't look like it will be too long before they are selling for that again. There are a few already down in the mid/low $500s.

Anonymous said...


Sorry that there are a few of use out here excited about the coming market and the opportunities.

As for the price on the house, you can argue that all you want and I won't get involved. I think any home that is not a 3 or 4 bed 2 bath 1200-1500 square foot home is going to be a very tough sale in this market.

As for the negativity from you two folks. I hope the very best for you both in this coming market. AS for me, 2008 is already off to a awesome start, I have purchased two rental homes that both meet my 1% rule and it looks like by the end of the year I will be purchasing rentals that hit 1.5%. The rule of thumb is that a house needs to rent for a minimum of 1% of your total investment. So, if the current rental value is 1400 per month, factor in a declining rent over the coming years and call it 1200 in monthly rents in the near future. So, then you get a house in that area for a total investment of 120k and your cash return will be around 8% after you factor in a 35% vacancy and repair loss. 1200 x 12 months = 14,400 - 35% = 9,360 / 120000 = 7.8% RETURN on an asset that will be worth a little more than I paid for it in 10 to 15 years. Meanwhile I can make these cash flow all day long at this price point with rates up to 7.75% 30 year fixed.

If I can purchase 15 to 20 per year that meet the 1% rule for the next few years I will retire off this down cycle. See why I'm exited? As for your comment on "if I don't like the point of view" or whatever send me packing. Pleas re-read my post. I love this site and love beating up on kook realtors/brokers etc however when one goes so hardcore (such as the author runs the risk of loosing folks such as myself who agree but just aren't so negative. Thats all big guy vet and ice. Golfer, thank you for the site, I love it. Especially when a good realtard post comes up.

Brian H

Anonymous said...

PS Ice,

your apparent statement is that of someone who can see nothing but the absolute worse in a situation. Do your homework and you will find a group of people who absolutely thrive in a R/E bust. They include REO agents who are selling 100's of homes a year, good mortgage guys who have the strength to survive, solid escrow companies, contractors repairing REO's etc. I know a major REO agent who has 60 current pending, has already closed on a bunch of listings this year and his office will probably close 300+ sales this year. Do the math, this guy is going to have a great year as will a bunch of savy REO agents and their related counter parties.

Golfer, I truly apologize for your post being sideswiped. I originally tired to comment purely on the post at hand. I will not do a follow up comment on this subject again.

Snob from Morgan Hill said...

Brian H,
As a previous home ownner and looking to buy again, I want to point out that this Blog site is not negative about real estate in general but concerned more on the house prices in IE which currently doesn't support the average household income of the region. Per your statement a $120K-$140K is great investment for a rental unit, but where could you currently find those in IE region nowday? Heck they want to sell $500K house in San Jacinto, that's what wrong with the whole picture.

InlandEmpirex said...

I specialized in apartments sales in the IE, the "1% rule" isn't ALWAYS a good investment strategy consider all properties are different.

I am not saying this strategy doesn't work at all and I was kind of hesitated to write this comment, but I really don't want ppl who read this blog follow an investment advice that might not work for everyone...

golfer_X said...

My advice is to not follow any advice you read on a blog. This blog or any blog.

That's an oxymoron if I ever wrote one.....

golfer_X said...

I have seen some reasonable looking properties listed under $150k in Hemet, San Jacinto, MoVal, Wildomar etc. These are usually 80's vintage and smaller. perfect rental units. Most of them would need at least $20k to make them rentalble. New carpet, Kitchens and bathrooms cleaned or updaded and usually the fences are falling down. Most of these units would only rent for $1200 to $1400 a month. That's not quite in the "ballpark" for me just yet. I guess if you have all day to look and field a hundred offers you might pick up a deal. But right now there's just not enough of them to make it worth while. Besides I feel those units will also be coming down in price. Why pay $150k when you can probably get it for $110k next year. You're not going to make $40k income off it in a year.

bvw said...

Brian H,
Where are you going to find 15 to 20 rentals a year that meet your criteria? How do you plan to finance them? FHA and Fannie/freddie have limits on non owner properties and I know of no hard money lenders who source funds at 7.75% or less.
Our Investment group buys loans from the investors directly, many with defects(cannot foreclose) and the bidding wars at 150k or less are fierce.

BTW for the accuracy of your facts, your friend Cathy T works for a small time broker in La Verne out of an OC office(yorba Linda)and Exit realty is a DBA not a franchise. Is JPM realty any better than TNG that you were slamming........get your facts straight, your dealing with pro's in here.........

Briar said...

So Brian,
What you got in the Ontario/Upland/Rancho area for about $1200? I'm looking. Even an efficiency-size condo would do so long as it's in a safe, clean area. (In fact, I love efficiencies, or studies as you'all seem to call them here.) Deal breakers: i need w/d or connections and i have two spoiled-rotten indoor cats who do nothing all day but sleep and wait for me to come home so they can boss me around.

Briar said...

I want to follow some advice on a blog I read (actually a forum) but i have to wait for a check to clear. If it had cleared in time and I had made the investment Friday and sold it today, I'd have made about $10 per share on an ETF. Damn check clearing delays!

And now I have to wait for it to drop again.

Anonymous said...

Golfer X Said-

"Why pay $150k when you can probably get it for $110k next year. You're not going to make $40k income off it in a year."

Sounds like a good point to me..... Finally some good back and forth action on this blog. Keep up the good work Golfer. Love it.

golfer_X said...

Just and update, the builder is now selling these models for $579k. Makes this one look kinda overpriced!