Saturday, November 22, 2008

Dos Lagos center can't make it's payments


More trouble for the Dos Lagos Shopping Center

If the Promenade Shops at Dos Lagos mall falls into foreclosure, a change of ownership is likely. But that won't be as important to the future of the south Corona shopping center as the ability of the upscale stores to withstand the battering of a weak economy and growing competition, retail experts said Friday.

Landlords for the two-year-old, 351,000-square-foot retail center beside Interstate 15 have missed two months of interest payments on a $125 million mortgage. The mortgage is in "imminent default" and being handled by the lender's special servicing department, a Credit Suisse analyst report said this week.

Poag said in the event of foreclosure, it would be up to CW Capital to decide what to do with the center. CW Capital representatives could not be reached to comment.

Stoffel said the Corona center is too geographically isolated and suffers from a shortage of upper-income customers as well as competition from more successful centers with similar "lifestyle" tenants, including Victoria Gardens in Rancho Cucamonga, the new Shoppes at Chino Hills and an expansion planned at The Promenade mall in Temecula. "Even if the economy were still going well, that center would have some issues getting higher sales volumes," he said.

Kaplan said the poor economy accelerated the failure of the center that he had predicted. Not only were the demographics subpar when the center opened, he said, but it had a visibility problem because it is below eye level from the freeway.


So what happens to the home values when this center becomes the "Rio Dos Lagos Swap Meet and Discount Mall"


21 comments:

Martin Burtin said...

Had dinner at Taps tonight. The restaurants were all full, with waits of 30 to 45 minutes. We choose to have dinner in the bar, to expedite things. Parking was difficult too, the North end of the mall where the restaurants are was packed with cars. That might be hurting shops. If you want to shop the North part of the Mall at a time when people are trying to eat, you probably can't park anywhere near your shop. Maybe people are not shopping at Dos Lagos, but it seems like they're eat'n there.

golfer_X said...

Mmmmm Taps is good! We were going to go down to Taps on Thursday but didn't make it. Weekends are still fairly busy at most decent places during peak hours. We are getting into the holiday season now so it's going to start getting busier in the malls. But they are expecting this to be the worst holiday season in a very long time.

That Dos Lagos center is usually dead. We go over there quite often and it's always very slow in the stores. There's no way those stores will make it. Even the restaurants I have doubts about them making it. During the week and at lunch those places are not very busy. Not busy enough to stay in business anyway. Wood Ranch is usually fairly busy and Fridays can be too but the others sure aren't. Go into Taps for lunch, even on a weekend it's dead usually.

Oldtimer said...

The developer of that mall (Poag & McEwen) is from Tennessee. They build higher end "lifestyle" centers.

I'd guess that if I had to go to Tennessee and pick a spot for a nice shopping mall, I'd pick a lousy location too.

The future of that mall looks like the Carousel in San Berdu.

tyrone said...

pretty soon it'll be dos ghettos

Christina said...

I think for the people that go to dinner at 6pm on the weekend, they may not see the drop. I live next to Victoria Gardens where the population explosion plus visitors from other cities has gotten so bad. We have been going to eat at at odd times like 11am, 2pm or 4pm for the past few years now. The change is noticeable to us! Two of my favorite places to eat have closed up shop within the past 6 months: 42nd Street Bagel and Noble House Chinese. And supposedly Rancho was going to hold up much better than the rest of the cities. I'm not saying that the people aren't there eating but they can share a dinner and order a less expensive drink. That will be enough to hurt the industry.

golfer_X said...

They are not spending near as much these days. My daughters boyfriend and his brother both work in food service and are bitching about small checks and smaller tips.

Look around next time you are out and see how many people are drinking water!

Michelle said...

i was at the new shoppes in chino hills today...wow..it's dead too...i don't know how it's going to survive...it's not that much better off than dos lagos...

Rob Dawg said...

Go long cyclone fence and security companies.

Sellin @ Da Drop said...

Dos Lagos was doomed from the get go. High end shops? For who? The artificially ATM house wealthy?? I saw this coming a mile away. At least the Chino Hills mall might fare better. The demographics might artificially prop it up for a while. Not trying to be racist but the Asians love their brand names and status symbols. They will pay anything by any means to be able to have the house in CH and their Coach bags. Why do yo uthink CH values have only slightly dropped?

ocrenter said...

went to the reserve at the peak. the sales staff were selling the homes by promising it to be the newport coast of the inland with dos lagos being the inland version of fashion island.

so much for that...

Christina said...

The Asian reference seems a little odd to me. Chino Hills has a few things going for it; for example limited land, specially on the south end where the homes are newer (15yrs or newer). The city decided a few years ago to only allow neighborhoods with associations be built. I'm not sure what exactly you call that. As X has stated before, homes that weren't new during the boom aren't going to see their prices drop as fast since some of those people have been in those homes for longer than the boom.

Sellin @ Da Drop said...

Really? I must be seeing things then when I walk around my CH neighborhood and all my Asian friends here must be imaginary. Anyway... as for those being here before the boom..how do you know they didn't become serial refinancers since then as many became? Soon destined for FC. Even the 'higher end / pre-bubble' hoods willbe affected. matter of time.

Christina said...

Thanks for being argumentative!!!

All I was doing was offering a plausible reason for CH holding up better besides you assessment of race.

I actually agree with some of your comments, just not those on one race holding up the CH market.


Chill!!!

Bigger said...

About Asians....

It is NOT a race thing. It is a culture thing about Asians. Most are conservative tight wads with money.

They may buy a Coach Bag, but they will shop around for Outlet Store prices.

Yes, most will buy brand name purses, watches, and cars like that... In the same token, they will treat buying a home like that...

As for Asian being serial refinancers, yes, they did. Most took advantage of the lower rate and refi to shorter term from 2001 to 2006. Some did it multi- times. So instead of refi for more debt or going HELC, they went the other way.

I'm not stating all the Asian did above mentioned. But most Asian did above mentioned.

On the flip side, There are many Asian that bought at the top of market. But most view their home as a long term investment to live and raise their family. So they will not walk.

You will notice I use the word "most" many times here. So I'm not stating that there are no distressed Asian home owners.

To put it plainly, it is their tendency to spend and manage money thriftily.

As matter of fact, it is not unheard of that an Asian will all cash pay for a distress property right now. Look at Eastvalle...

Again, it is NOT a race thing. It is how they were taught and brought up within the Asian Culture. They are not superior.

Event if they have lived in the States for a long time or was born here, they were just raised differently.

I'm Not POTUS said...

All I know is that the only reason the restaurants are open at all is that majority of lazy, ATMhome spending Americans can't cook food at home that tastes any good.

golfer_X said...

Well I will place myself in the minority who can cook! I'm the chef around the house and I can make a mean rack of lamb ;-)

Roger Roberts said...

Race is a human created taxon. There is only one race of man and that is human. That is what we need to teach our children....

Martin Burtin said...

Thanks for the Political Correctness lesson, Roger. Could we have a sexual harassment lecture too please? Just give me a moment, while I ask my secretary to go fetch us all a hot cup of coffee and come sit on my lap. No, no, don't worry about getting her a chair, she's Asian and very petite and dare I say, flexible. Or, I could be just jerk'n your chain. You decide.

Roger Roberts said...

It is quite extraordinary. Seven million years of human evolution has lead to this....

golfer_X said...

Wow are we getting OT

So to throw more gas on this fire....

Technically "humans" have not been evolving for 7 million years. Hominids have. The exact date of the evolution of modern humans is not know but the estimate is somewhere around 500,000 years ago. Not until around 50,000 years ago did behaviorally modern humans arise (us).

Now we may all be humans but we are not all one race. There are evolutionary differences between the races and it's not just skin color. Like dogs there are many different "breads" of humans.

Our differences are what make us interesting. I think the world would be a boring place if we were all the same.

Roger Roberts said...

Actually, the line that has become modern humans has been evolving since the beginning of life on this planet. What I was referring to was the split between humans and the other great apes (which, unfortunately, some people didn't quite make).

Again, race is a concept created by humans to subjugate the meek. It is relatively easy to enslave someone simply because their outward appearance is different. Nature differentiates between organisms by their ability to breed. Humans do it mostly by appearance and, when we look the same, cultural differences are used.

I also enjoy and embrace the cultural differences that make us all special. But the differences are simply that- cultural. On the biological and molecular levels, we are all the same. Skin color and other superficial differences are caused mostly by geography (latitude in particular). There are subtle genetic differences between people from different parts of the world. Those differences arose because of evolution in isolation. If that isolation continues long enough, then we have different species (didn't happen with us though). Thankfully, no population on earth evolves in isolation any longer. The world has become a smaller place (figuratively, of course). Eventually, barring any catastrophic events, we will all be similarly colored one day and look alike to a great degree. That may seem boring to some people, but rest assured there will always be differences between individuals. Then we can do what humans do best, find some insignificant difference and ostrasize you for it. I list my race simply as human.