The bubble must be back

The bubble days are back. This seller thinks so anyway. 8024 Sanctuary in the Retreat just listed for $748k. That's $223k more than the owner paid less than 2 years ago. Other than some landscaping and paint I don't see that he's done much to the house. I looked at this home in 2009 when it was for sale and although it was nice it was actually priced about $50k higher than some of the identical floorplan homes were selling for. This one does back up to the course but the yard is small and it's right next to the clubhouse. I'm not sure what makes a person think in this economy that they can get $223K profit on this house. The realtor should have smacked the seller for even suggesting such a price. On the plus side, the pictures are great. I'll give Tiffanie some brownie points for the listing. Well written and good pics, that's nice to see once in a while. But the price.......

It's been a while

It's been a while since I gave out the Ass-Clown award, then I ran across this listing and I just couldn't help but break it back out.

1505 Vanigraff in Corona was purchased in late 08 for $615k. The previous owner paid $1.062m for it. The current owner has only been in the home 18 months but somehow thinks it has increased in value some $370k in that time! He has listed it for $985K. I don't even have words for how silly that asking price is.

The home right behind this one (identical floor plan, nice house with awesome pool) sold two months ago for $600k. So this guy will be very lucky if he can get out for what he paid. After costs he's still looking at a healthy loss though (based on that comp next door).

edjumacation not required

It's been a while since I ran across a real gem of a listing. Here's a beaut. This has all the hallmarks of the stereotypical realtard.

This listing in The Retreat just hit the market. 22476 Quiet Bay is one of the big KB homes. These puppies were well over a million at the peak. This one sold for $971k in late 2007, so the prices had fallen a bit by then. Now it's a shorty listed for $600k. The price is probably about right, possibly just a wee bit high considering the lack of landscaping. Now, check out this listing description.....

BEAUTIFUL 5 BED 5.5 BATH OVER 5300 LIVING SPACE SITTING ON THE OVER 12000 SQFT LOT, IN THE BEAUTIFUL GOLF COMMUNITY OF RETREAT IN SOUTH CORONA. THIS CORNER HOUSE OFFERS EVERYTHING YOU NEED IN A HOUSE. BEAUTIFUL ENTRANCE DEN/ OFFICE GUEST ROOM WITH WALKIN CLOSET, 3 CAR GRAGE, BIG KITCHEN ALOOTS OF CABNITS WITH TERMADORE APPLIANCES GRANITE COUNTER TOPS SOURAND SOUND SPEAKER IN THE FAMILY ROOM FIRE PLACE. UPSATIRS LARGE MASTER BED WITH RETREAT AND FIREPLACE A LARGE BALCONY. A UPSTAIR FAMILY ROOM JACK AND JILL ROOM AND A SEPARATE ROOM WITH ATTACHED FULL BATH. 2ND FRENCH BALCONY. UPSTAIRE LAUNDRY ROOM. .. .. .MUCH MUCH MORE TO WRITE. .. . GOT TO SEE IT. .. ..

Oh yes, that is a gem. Some of the words are so badly butchered it's hard to tell what he really meant. It took me a minute to figure out what "sourand" was. Upstairs is spelled 3 different ways all of them wrong. All caps of course and no real sentence structure. This guy didn't use multiple exclamation marks though, he went with periods. I can only assume he doesn't know where the exclamation mark is on the keyboard.

$84 s/f in the retreat

Ok, so technically this is a short sale and the chances it will actually sell for this price are slim. But I think the fact that it listed at this price shows that the mid to high end is still falling. I'm certainly seeing the listing prices int he areas I watch continue to drop (I just wish there were more listings). There have been other sub $400k listings and sales in The Retreat. But those were in the smaller KB homes down near the back gate. This is the first one I've seen up in the central area.

8133 Tender way is a big home in The Retreat. It listed today for $399k. The house is 4767 s/f and has 4 bedrooms. It sold new back in April 2006 for just under a million ($996k). So this one is listed nearly $600k less than it's 2006 sales price or down about 60%. That price seems about right to me!

Biggest problem with this place is still the taxes. Even if you could pick it up for $400k, you are looking at nearly $10k per year in taxes AND nearly another $300/mo for the HOA (listing says $185/mo, I know it's way more than that).

Oh my, Flipper alert

It's rare these days but there are some guys still flipping. Granted most of them know what they are doing and can still make a buck buying the right home at the right price. Here's the opposite type of flipper.

8223 Sunset Rose, is in my favorite whipping post, The Retreat. This home went back to the lender in August 08 for $568k. It sold in Dec for $618k (too high in my opinion but obviously I don't know squat). So it lists today as a "rare regular sale" for $799k! Huh, this fliptard thinks he's going to make $180k in 4 months in today's market.....

There's not a lot for sale right now in there. They seem to have worked through a lot of the old inventory. But they worked through it because the prices came down. Houses this size have been listing for mid $500s not $800k. There are 3 slightly smaller homes listed one is $470k, one is $552k and the highest is $549k (and it has a bitchin pool). Lets all give a hand to the fliptard of the month!

Sycamore creek post a new low

Here's the first decent listing I've seen under $80 sq/ft in Corona. 25285 Noble Canyon, this 5 bedroom, 3.5 bath home is 4158 sq/ft in size. From the pics it looks nicely upgraded and in very good shape. This one sold new, Feb 2006 for $716k. The bank now owns it and thinks that a listing price of $327,500 aught to git-r-done. That is about 54% off the new price, or a loss of about $388k. All in all this one looks like a reasonable deal. I'll give this one a green light if you can get it at that price.


If 4000 sq/ft is a bit much for you, you might want to look at 25215 Coral Canyon. It's just around the corner and at 3268 it a little more "cozy". Actually its still quite large but this one is listed as an REO for $285k. That puts it at $87 sq/ft.

Sycamore creek, $65 sq/ft

If you measure the value of a home using the $ sq/ft yardstick then this one should rate high on your meter.

25095 Cliffrose St is a big home in Sycamore Creek, South Corona. It's 4519 sq/ft with 5 bedrooms and 3 baths. Built in 2004, it sold new for $555k. Listed now for $295k or $65 sq/ft. It's not quite $50% off but then again it was bought 2 years before the peak. Peak price for this thing would probably have been around $800k. (using 25122 Cliffrose as a comp).

Think it's a one of a kind deal? How about $55 sq/ft? 11135 Larkspur shows up on Redfin as a bank-listed foreclosure. This home is 4158 sq/ft. It's also a 5 bedroom and 3 bath home. It's listed though for $227,500 or $55 sq/ft! This one sold new for a few latte's under $700K in 2006.

This tract has many listings under $100 sq/ft and quite a few under $90 sq/ft. Then there's the two above under $70 sq/ft. Listing prices like these have been creeping inward towards the better areas for over a year now. How much longer before they hit central Corona and the better areas of Riverside? Do you think they will stop short? Once upon a time I did. I'm not sure that they will anymore. I still don't think "normal" sized homes will see $65 sq/ft in central Corona but they big obnoxious monsters might get close.

Eastvale listings, new lows

The listing prices of REO properties in the Eastvale area of Corona is continuing to drop. Even as the number of REO properties decrease. Today I found a couple hitting the market at around $90 s/ft. There's a short sale that just listed at $81 s/f (although I don't use short sales as an indication of anything).

7207 Midnight Rose Cir, This home is 4203 sq/ft and has 5 beds and 5 baths. Its the most expensive listing uner $100 s/f to hit the market this week. It's listd at $98 s/f or $410K. This home sold new in Feb 2007 for $688K. They didn't even manage to keep the home 2 years. In fact they barely made a year as they lost this thing way back in March. It took the bank 7 months to get this home on the market! I wonder how many payments they actaully made?



6457 Daffodil Ct is home of 3683 sq/ft and it has 5 bedrooms and 3 baths. This home is listed for $330K or $90 s/f! There is no sales data in Refin for this home so I don't know the history. It would appear that the original owner from 1999 lost this home. That would probably indicate they lost it due to equity withdrawal.



6522 Gold Dust St, This one is 4236 s/f and has 5 bedrooms and 3.5 baths. It hit the market $384k or $91 s/f. This home last sold in August of 2005 for $725k. It went back to the lender in August. They tried to get $405k on the courthouse steps but there were no takers. Think anyone will jump on it at $384k? Yea, me too (assuming it's not thrashed inside).


But if you want to dream big you can go after this Short Sale that listed at $74 s/f. 12782 Thornbury Ln is a big 4038 sq/ft monster with 5 berdrooms and 3.5 baths. The current owners are so far underwater they will need Alvin to rescue them. They bought this home new in Jan 2007 for $669k (probably thought they got a deal too!). Now it's listed as a short sale at $299k! Good luck with that one...... (That's probbly what this home will be worth in 2011 though).

$89 sq/ft REO in Eastvale

Before you jump all over my butt, I know this will probably sell for more. But, the mere fact that it has listed for $89 sq/ft as an REO will encourage more and more listings to go low.

12492 Feather Dr. This home is actually on the East side of Hamner ave putting it in Mira Loma but it is still in the Eastvale area. It's a big one at 4220 sq/ft and it has 5 bedrooms and 4 baths. It has just listed as an REO for $375k or $89 sq/ft. There's also another REO that listed today at $93 sq/ft in the same tract (12245 Ashcroft). It says that ones a fixer so it may have some damage inside.

Over in the Corona side of Eastvale we have one hitting the market today at $98 sq/ft. 13840 Peach grove is the adress if anyone wants to run over. This one is listed nearly 50% off it's previous sale of $750K. Also an REO.

The Retreat goes Sub-400K

My favorite bubble whipping post has gone Sub-$400k.

Last week before hitting the high seas I saw this listing. I honestly figured it would have sold by the time I got back. But it hadn't and there was an open house on it this weekend. I drove over to take a look with my wife. I expected a stripped home or another thrasher where the owners trashed it on the way out. But no, the home was actually quite nice. The fixtures and flooring were all basic stuff. No upgrades here folks. But the house was in good shape. The only bad thing was the back yard was tiny and I do mean tiny. I think you could stand in the door and touch the back wall with a broom.

The home is 8775 Gentile Wind drive. An address my wife found strangley amusing. Gentile Wind she said with a snicker.... "that's a perfect address for you". The home is a 4 bedroom 3 bath with 3333 sq/ft of living space. This is a KB home built in 2005 and selling new for $718K. They tried to get $390k for it on the courthouse steps but there were no takers so the bank now owns it. There asking price is $380K. A couple of months ago I would have said this will sell in a heart beat. But there are several other homes in this tract listed very close to $400k. If those are upgraded or have larger lots then this home may still have trouble at this price. Another huge problem for this tract is the ungodly high property tax. On top of the normal CA property tax you have about another $4500. If that's not bad enough the HOA is currently running about $120 a month ( I was quoted $230 by another agent at another open house). All together that adds another $500 to $600 a month to the monthly nut. (the picture above is the home next door but they look alike and are the same basic floorplan. This one is listed at $417k as a short sale).

I've received a few nasty-grams over the months about me being a poor, bitter, jealous renter who can't afford "The Retreat". They said sales were picking up and prices would soon recover, etc, etc. Funny stuff really, obviously from homeowners in "the retreat". Please if you feel the need to send me another one, just go get a stiff drink and skip it.

Some of them deserved what they got

8895 Gentile Wind is one of the KB homes in The Retreat in South Corona. This home is a recent REO (like every other house in The Retreat). It sold new from the builder in 2005 for $743k. The buyers put in a little landscaping (and I do mean "a little", a 6' patio slab and a brick planter looks to be about it). The they manage to off load this thing in Nov 07 for 1.3 million??? WTF, that is months after the market imploded. In Late 07 there were already enough foreclosures in this tract to fill a cruise ship. In late 07 there were already homes on this same street listed under $700k yet this home sells for $1.3M. That sale is obviously fraudulent. It has a big red rotating sign on it that says "I screwed the lender". Gawd I wish they would hunt these people down and make them listed to Hanna Montana records nonstop for a few years. Oh wait, that might be cruel and unusual punishment. Eh, who cares.

Obviously the bank got screwed and this house is now listed for $430k. That makes this the cheapest house in The Retreat currently. Not my much mind you, there are several in the mid $400s. This house has fallen 43% from what it sold for new in 2005. Or if you want to go for the shocking (but obviously fraudulent) number, it has fallen 67% from the previous sale for a loss of $870K.

At the current price this house seems like a good deal. But once you factor in the HOA and the taxes this place becomes quite a bit more expensive. Still at this price, I think this will go pretty quick. Assuming there are any buyers left after this week.

Flipping, alive and well

Here's a flip attempt in Corona.

3231 Huntfield St was taken back by the bank for $401K. The previous owner had paid $930K in Dec 2006 for it. It sold in early Sept for $370K. That is a loss of 60.3% from the Dec 09 price or if you prefer your loss in dollars, that's a loss of $560K. This one was picked up by an investor hoping for a quick profit. It's already back on the market priced at $499K. Not bad if he can get it that's a quick profit of $130K less sales costs. The flipper looks to be an agent or broker.

Listings like this have to make you wonder if these agents aren't taking advantage of their positions to snag deals before the public gets a chance. This house at $370k was a steal (unless it was trashed). There's no way that it would have sold that low had it been on the open market. Homes in this area, this size are still selling for well over $400k and some are still getting over $500k. The listing says it is completely rehabed. But the house was only 3 years old and it's only been 3 weeks since it sold so they could not have done much more than paint and carpet. Now this house could have been trashed and everything could be legit, but it does make you wonder....

Ass-Clown of the month award

I thought maybe, possibly, hopefully, I had seen the last of the delusional seller listings. But no, that was wishful thinking. This months assclown lives in Sycamore Creek. The biggest financial black hole in Corona. Most homes in this tract are currently listed for about 1/2 what they sold for new. That puts the average asking price in the low to mid 300's. Then there is this guy!

11439 Tesota Loop. The house is 3603 s/f with 5 bedrooms and 3 baths. The house looks nice but it's not high end. The kitchen counters appear to be tile, I don't see any hardwood flooring and the appliances are low end. The house was purchased new in April 2005 for $556k. It listed this week for a gut busting, soda spitting price of $830K!!



Is this another "fake" listing in order to get the bank to agree to a loan modification? "Sure, Mr Bank, I had it listed for 6 months and couldn't sell it...." I hope it is. Because to think that this far into the biggest real estate meldown in recent history, there are sellers and agents that think people will pay more than peak prices is disturbing. The agent should be strung up by the gonads just for taking this listing.

Checking Redfin to see what homes are selling for shows that about a dozen near him have sold in the last 3 months. The price range was $275k to $380k for those homes. In addition the three houses to his right are all for sale (4 in a row) , 2 are slightly smaller and one is the same floorplan. They are all listed under $400k and 2 of those 3 have been listed for over 4 months now. So, obviously they are asking too much.

$830K for an average tract home Sycamore Creek......What is this guy thinking. I bet we don't see those prices again until 2050.

They're duking it out in Eastvale

The banks are getting pretty aggressive this week with their REO's in Eastvale. 3 have listed in the last couple of days under $300k. I haven't seen very many under $300k so seeing 3 hit the market in the last few days is unusual.

The first and from the pics, the nicest is 6727 Black Hawk. This house is 3086 s/f with 5 bedrooms and 3 baths. It looks to have a nice kitchen and has some decent landscaping in the front. Purchased in late 06 for $590k it is now owned by the bank and listed for $299,900. Once all the fees are factored in this will easily be a 50% loss, even if it sells slightly above list.


Home 2 is 12849 Pattison St. This house is 2371 s/f and has 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths. It was purchased in Oct 04 for $444k. The bank is the owner now and they want $292K.


The third house is 13936 Clearwater. This house is 2568 s/f and has 3 beds and 3 baths. It was purchased in july 05 for $500k. The current owner is a bank and they feel $298K will get the buyers off the fence (probably right too).


In addition to these 3 sub $300k homes there were a whole bunch hit the market in the very low $300s. So, is it a good time to buy? I'd still say no, it still appears that the prices are falling. All the data, whether from HousingTracker, Dataquick or even the NAR shows prices are still falling. Lehman came out last week and said they think California is only 1/2 way to the bottom. And we are still not down to the normal ratios of price to rent or price to income. We are getting close though. The IE has fallen farther and faster than much of the rest of California. I still think we have another 20% or so to go in the IE.

Never been a better time to buy?

A phrase I here every day whenever I stop at an open house. Really? Well, not really and I can disprove that little sales pitch all day, every day. Lets take a look at one small street in Corona. These homes were built in 97 and sold in the high 100's. Some of these were fetching over $600k at the peak. There were a few REO's sitting on the market for months at the beginning of the year. They all started out asking around $500k with no takers. Once the first one dropped to $399k they started selling.

The first sale was 530 Wrightwood. It had been listed for about a year before going REO. If finally sold the very end of March for $395k. The guy probably thought he got a deal. I'm sure his Realtor told his so.

Well, not so fast. Only a couple of months later 1328 Woodvale sells for $350K, the asking price was $399. It's a slightly smaller home but the lot is better and the home was in better shape. (These homes are only about 6 houses apart.) Hmm, I wonder how much that stung $40k down the tubes!

Just to rub it in, a model match just around the corner at 1353 Hermosa also just sold for $350k. This one had also been on the market forever. They also tried to get $500k, then $400k, finally selling in July for $350k.

Now, for more bad news, especially for buyer number one. But numbers 2 and 3 are not going to like this listing much either. 1408 Hermosa just listed as and REO a couple of weeks ago. It's definitely the nicest house out of the bunch, by far. It's a model match to homes 1 and 3 and it's listed for $319k. Sure it might fetch more, we will have to wait and see. It's got to make home buyer number one dizzy though. That's about a 20% loss in 5 months! Yes, never been a better time to buy indeed.

By the way check out the description from the listing of 1408 Hermosa. This guy obviously bought The Dummies Guide to Adjectives" book. At least I don't see any spelling errors!

"Welcome to paradise! This enchanting beauty boasts a captivating private back yard featuring a phenomenal view of the golf course and city lights. This is an entertainers back yard. The luminous kitchen easily flows into the family room which highlights a cozy fireplace all emphasizing the the inviting living room and entry. 4 glorious bedrooms and extraordinary tile flooring are just some of the gifts that this beauty has to offer."

That reminds me of something Stewie from the Family Guy would say. Just imagine it read in his voice!

And there is one more also a model match to homes 1, 3 and 4. It's been listed for a couple of months at $350k. This one is a short sale so I don't count it yet. Once it goes to the lender I'm sure it will be even lower than 1408.

This is not some new tract that is imploding. This is a well established tract in a nice area of Corona with only a few REO's. Even with only a few REO's you can see that the prices are still falling at a hefty clip. I wonder how many of those buyers though they were buying at the bottom? I would bet all of them did!

The million dollar club

Finding losses of $500k, $600k or even $700k is not that hard these days. But finding losses of a million or more on IE homes is a little unusual. Many of the high loss homes undoubtedly involve some kind of fraud. This home is probably one of those.

1062 Lowry Ranch Rd in Corona (I know the listing says it's in Riverside, it's not, it's in Corona). This is a big home in Crown Ranch. It sold new in feb 2006 for 1.255 million dollars. The next sale was very probably a fraudulent transaction. Even in the boom years tract homes did not double in price in a year. It sold again in mid 2007 for 2.2 Million bucks! Yes, you read that right, in the middle of the biggest real estate meltdown in history this guy flip a home in a year and nearly doubles his money.

I'd bet a bottle of scotch that no payments were made on that loan. The home went back to the bank a year later and now it's listed for $815K. That's a loss of $1.385 Million from the obviously fraudulent sale. However other homes in this tract were selling for about 1.5 million in that time frame. So the loss would still be impressive even if it sold at "market" price in mid 07.

Getting there.

How's that prediction of Corona homes under $100 s/f working out? Pretty good actually. Here's a fine example today from South Corona.

If you like em BIG, then 25111 Cliffrose St in So Corona may suit you. This home is 4187 s/f and has 5 bedrooms and 4.5 baths. It features all the trendy niceties like Granite, tile floor, crown molding etc. This REO property was purchased new in late 2004 for $625,500 (that was a lot in 2004!). It's gone back to the bank and now it's offered for $369,900. That works out to $88 s/f. That is a 41% loss from a 2004 purchase price! That is easily 2 years before the peak and it's still losing 41%.



Also in Sycamore Creek there is 25205 Noble Canyon. This home is 4158 s/f and has 5 bedrooms and 3.5 baths. This one was purchased new in April 06 for 706K. It's now bank owned and is listed for $380K ($91 sq/ft). That is a loss of 46% assuming it sells at listing. They have already dropped the price once so it may sell for even less.



Not felling the love for South Corona? Well there is 14715 Rick Ln in Eastvale. This home is another big-un. It is 4148 sq/ft and also has 5 beds and 4.5 baths. This one is still in diapers at just over one year old. It was bought in Feb 2007 for $660k and it's already gone back to the bank. It's currently listed for $385k. Now don't get too excited the previous owners did take a few of the kitchen cabinets. Doesn't look that bad though, probably $5k to replace the missing cabinets.


There are plenty more like these and theres also a load of short sales listed sub $100 s/f.

Delusional seller of the month award

This month our delusional seller award goes to KB Homes. Since sales have ground to a halt in The Retreat, KB Homes is now selling off the models. With all the REO sales to compete with it looks like they may be throwing in the towel for now.

The homes that are selling in The Retreat seem to be fetching in the $130 to $150 a sq/ft range currently. KB is trying to get about $170+ sq/ft for their last few new homes. That must be a hard sell with the REO's asking about 20% less than that.

So, on to the award. Me and the wife stopped in last week and asked for a price sheet. Ready for this? they are asking 1.2 million, 1.3 million and 1.4 million for the 3 models! I actually laughed out loud when I saw the prices and handed the price sheet back. Man did I get the stink eye!

The average home in the tract is selling for (let's be an optamist) about $150 sq/ft. Yet KB Homes thinks they can get over $300 sq/ft. Yes, they are very nice and fully upgraded. But to think they will sell those at that price is ludicrous. There's no way they will appraise anywhere near that. So that means KB must finance the loan or find a cash buyer stupid enough to plonk down 1.3 mill on a house that would probably only fetch $500k next year.

We salute you, KB Homes. Delusional seller of August 2008.

A flip to a flop

8631 PINA CORTE, Corona, CA 92883

This home was featured on the BMIT website back in Sept 07. It was an attempted flip. Here's the text from the BMIT post,

House #3 is 8613 Pina Corte. This is also a 3,629 sqft model that was previously featured by BMIT back in July of '06. At the time, the home was on sale as a REO after the prior owner defaulted on his zero down, 100% financed $735,000 purchase. Perhaps inspired by the impressive sale price from 8650 Pina Corte, a flipper decided he couldn't pass up this home at the bargain basement price of $635,000 in March of '07 (afterall, $215,000 instant equity, right?). The flipper added front and back yard landscaping, a balcony, as well as bamboo flooring, new carpet, and a painted driveway. The flip has been on the MLS since July and after a single price drop it looks like the flipper is sticking to his $825,000 asking price.

So a flipper picked up this place for $635k last year. Dropped another wad of cash upgrading the place and tried to get $850k for it. As you can well imagine that didn't quite work out for our fliptard.

It listed this week (again) at a more reasonable price. It's now listed as a short sale at $399k! Now that is a FLOP!!

A cold hard dose of reality

You may remember a post from back in January about the "WTF award of the decade". This optimist listed his house for 1.25 Million when nearby model matches were listed in the high 500s. Well, low and behold I ran across it today relisting as a short sale for.......... $470K! Hmm checking my math that is a price cut of $780K. Of course his original price was about $700k too high at the time. And looking at the competition, his current price might be about $30K too high still. There are currently 2 other similar homes on the same street listed under $450K and one of those is an REO. Even as a short sale this guy still lists too high.

Here's the current pic. As you can see the lawn has died and the weeds are waist high. I guess we can assume the owner has bailed out already.



The home is at 8763 Gentile Wind Dr, Corona. It was purchased in May 07 for $720K. At the time this was cheap for this area. The market had already ground to a halt but back then the prices were still sky high in this tract. This guy may have thought he was getting a steal. But as it turns out he was in the first wave of knife catchers and this guy caught a Samurai sword. Probably losing both hands in the process. Unfortunately for him, his short sale price appears to be set too high. With nearby model match homes priced $30K less and still not selling he has no chance. His realtor should price it at $400k, generate some interest and some offers and pray the banks play ball.